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From: Bob McMahon <bob.mcmahon@broadcom.com>
To: "Rodney W. Grimes" <4bone@gndrsh.dnsmgr.net>
Cc: Dave Taht <dave.taht@gmail.com>,
	ghosal@cs.ucdavis.edu, BBR Development <bbr-dev@googlegroups.com>,
	Taran Lynn <tflynn@ucdavis.edu>,
	Make-Wifi-fast <make-wifi-fast@lists.bufferbloat.net>,
	ECN-Sane <ecn-sane@lists.bufferbloat.net>,
	bloat <bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net>,
	codel@lists.bufferbloat.net, flent-users <flent-users@flent.org>
Subject: [Flent-users] Re: [Ecn-sane] [Make-wifi-fast] D* tcp looks pretty good, on paper
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 2021 09:52:42 -0800
Message-ID: <CAHb6LvqA-6WE0eDXAn3+_GvyB9qaArmLN1A+=u1pNa4_YWUTTg@mail.gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <202101081435.108EZFvn020544@gndrsh.dnsmgr.net>


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For that run it was two nodes each using 8 core (16 hyperthreads) systems
running Fedora 30 each with a spectracom GPS disciplined OCXO over pcie.
The two nodes are connected via a single 10G switch with 10G copper. I use
this rig as part of iperf 2 development.

I haven't published any results with the raspberry pie as the PTP
grandmaster. I just want to mention it because most people can't afford the
spectracom based systems.

We have many runs around WiFi with competitive traffic same stack, air
compete, AIFS disadvantaged, etc.  All these results are internal use only.

Also, a side note and a reminder by Jaffe written in 1981, that flow
control power is not decentralizeble per the below
<https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/document/1095152>.

"On the assumption that communication links behave like M/M/1 servers it is
shown that no "decentralized flow control algorithm"
can maximize network power. Power has been suggested in the literature as a
network performance objective. It is also
shown that no objective based only on the users' throughputs and average
delay is decentralizable.
Finally, a restricted class of algorithms cannot even approximate power.

Bob

On Fri, Jan 8, 2021 at 6:35 AM Rodney W. Grimes <4bone@gndrsh.dnsmgr.net>
wrote:

> > This is through one of the last remaining cerowrt boxes in the world,
> > running fq_codel. tcp-davis takes about a 20% single stream throughput
> > hit vs bbr.
> >
> > I note, that I don't care one whit about throughput anymore. I care
> > that nothing, NOTHING messes up my videoconference...
>
> IMHO it is a fools errand to place all priorty on one of throughput
> or delay, but it is reasonable to slightly bias the situation to
> defer a bit over throughput if a stable lower delay is gained.  The
> lost of some throughput can often be made up with additional capacity,
> but nothing can increase the speed of light.
>
> > and thus the tcp-rtt stats attached for davis are pleasing.
>
> A questions/comment inline below about this data.
>
> >
> > On Thu, Jan 7, 2021 at 12:26 PM Bob McMahon <bob.mcmahon@broadcom.com>
> wrote:
> > >
> > > FYI, one can try this out using iperf 2.1 with --trip-times.  This
> gives end/end delay at the application level. One can use --trip-times when
> clocks
> > > are sync'd to get the write to read latencies which are the latencies
> at the application level.
> > >
> > > Note: I set up a Raspberry Pi 4 with a GPS hat from ubutronics for
> solderless pulse per second.  Then configured it as a PTP grandmaster.
> This cost me around $200.
>
> Ok, so that is the clock source node, could we get a better description of
> the network topology and end node hardware?
>
> > > I also added support for a very crude --near-congestion option that
> paces the writes based upon the weight of the RTT.  The tcp_info struct is
> sampled and available
> > > for other experiments though one would have to modify the source a
> bit. This current technique used by iperf 2.1 is designed for test networks
> only where all
> > > traffic is under script control. We've had too many people measuring
> bloat as latency. We really need separate measurements between the two
> phenomena,
> > > bloat vs latency, because they require different eng actions for a
> semiconductor supplier.
> > >
> > > Below are examples over a 10G link, first with no write pacing then
> with it. The server output, shown first, has the latency data (as well as
> the net power
> > > and little's law calculation.)  (Note: use --histograms for to get
> full distributions.)
>
> Is this network a 3 node physical dumb-bell, or is this in Netem or is
> this something more complicated?
> What is the inherient delay path of this network?  Aka, what is D in the
> BDP, given the near saturation and the small window my guess is this is a
> simple 3 node dumb bell, but would like confirmation of that.
>
> > >
> > > No write pacing
> > >
> > > [rjmcmahon@localhost iperf2-code]$ src/iperf -s -i 1 -e
> > > ------------------------------------------------------------
> > > Server listening on TCP port 5001 with pid 24568
> > > Read buffer size:  128 KByte (Dist bin width=16.0 KByte)
> > > TCP window size: 85.3 KByte (default)
> > > ------------------------------------------------------------
> > > [  1] local 192.168.1.10%enp2s0 port 5001 connected with 192.168.1.62
> port 50056 (MSS=1448) (trip-times) (sock=4) (peer 2.1.0-rc) on 2021-01-07
> 12:11:04 (PST)
> > > [ ID] Interval        Transfer    Bandwidth    Burst Latency
> avg/min/max/stdev (cnt/size) inP NetPwr  Reads=Dist
> > > [  1] 0.00-1.00 sec  1.09 GBytes  9.34 Gbits/sec
> 2.959/1.180/3.681/0.388 ms (8905/131072) 3.31 MByte 394522
> 18480=2459:2580:2475:2354:2203:2192:1974:2243
> > > [  1] 1.00-2.00 sec  1.10 GBytes  9.41 Gbits/sec
> 2.993/2.302/3.703/0.359 ms (8978/131072) 3.36 MByte 393209
> 19482=2526:2850:3102:2622:2344:2297:1867:1874
> > > [  1] 2.00-3.00 sec  1.10 GBytes  9.42 Gbits/sec
> 3.010/2.302/3.692/0.347 ms (8978/131085) 3.38 MByte 391047
> 19387=2563:2757:2928:2708:2432:2244:1829:1926
> > > [  1] 3.00-4.00 sec  1.10 GBytes  9.41 Gbits/sec
> 3.009/2.301/3.668/0.348 ms (8979/131060) 3.38 MByte 391094
> 18821=2456:2585:2660:2545:2270:2239:1906:2160
> > > [  1] 4.00-5.00 sec  1.10 GBytes  9.42 Gbits/sec
> 2.985/2.299/3.696/0.359 ms (8979/131070) 3.35 MByte 394295
> 19441=2509:2886:2959:2728:2336:2200:1971:1852
> > > [  1] 5.00-6.00 sec  1.10 GBytes  9.41 Gbits/sec
> 2.977/2.258/3.671/0.363 ms (8978/131082) 3.34 MByte 395352
> 18509=2352:2602:2464:2380:2263:2142:2095:2211
> > > [  1] 6.00-7.00 sec  1.10 GBytes  9.41 Gbits/sec
> 2.980/2.290/3.680/0.363 ms (8978/131072) 3.34 MByte 394873
> 18522=2407:2499:2565:2334:2213:2268:1999:2237
> > > [  1] 7.00-8.00 sec  1.10 GBytes  9.42 Gbits/sec
> 2.980/2.253/3.702/0.362 ms (8979/131073) 3.35 MByte 394972
> 18615=2427:2592:2493:2460:2281:2057:2062:2243
> > > [  1] 8.00-9.00 sec  1.10 GBytes  9.41 Gbits/sec
> 2.976/2.277/3.663/0.364 ms (8979/131065) 3.34 MByte 395443
> 18632=2338:2615:2647:2351:2192:2317:2063:2109
> > > [  1] 9.00-10.00 sec  1.10 GBytes  9.41 Gbits/sec
> 2.976/2.293/3.690/0.366 ms (8978/131076) 3.34 MByte 395416
> 18428=2281:2622:2497:2275:2178:2253:2129:2193
> > > [  1] 0.00-10.00 sec  11.0 GBytes  9.41 Gbits/sec
> 2.984/1.180/3.703/0.362 ms (89736/131072) 3.35 MByte 394014
> 188367=24320:26609:26793:24757:22712:22211:19916:21049
> > >
> > >
> > > [rjmcmahon@localhost iperf2-code]src/iperf -c 192.168.1.10
> --trip-times -i 1 -e
> > > ------------------------------------------------------------
> > > Client connecting to 192.168.1.10, TCP port 5001 with pid 18961 (1
> flows)
> > > Write buffer size: 131072 Byte
> > > TCP window size: 85.0 KByte (default)
> > > ------------------------------------------------------------
> > > [  1] local 192.168.1.62%enp2s0 port 50056 connected with 192.168.1.10
> port 5001 (MSS=1448) (trip-times) (sock=3) (ct=0.41 ms) on 2021-01-07
> 12:11:04 (PST)
> > > [ ID] Interval        Transfer    Bandwidth       Write/Err  Rtry
>  Cwnd/RTT        NetPwr
> > > [  1] 0.00-1.00 sec  1.09 GBytes  9.37 Gbits/sec  8937/0          0
>  1508K/1099 us  1065750
> > > [  1] 1.00-2.00 sec  1.10 GBytes  9.41 Gbits/sec  8975/0          0
>  1508K/1087 us  1082218
> > > [  1] 2.00-3.00 sec  1.10 GBytes  9.41 Gbits/sec  8975/0          0
>  1508K/1081 us  1088225
> > > [  1] 3.00-4.00 sec  1.10 GBytes  9.42 Gbits/sec  8984/0          0
>  1508K/1085 us  1085300
> > > [  1] 4.00-5.00 sec  1.10 GBytes  9.42 Gbits/sec  8980/0          0
>  1508K/1105 us  1065182
> > > [  1] 5.00-6.00 sec  1.10 GBytes  9.41 Gbits/sec  8975/0          0
>  1582K/1100 us  1069428
> > > [  1] 6.00-7.00 sec  1.10 GBytes  9.42 Gbits/sec  8979/0          0
>  1582K/1121 us  1049862
> > > [  1] 7.00-8.00 sec  1.10 GBytes  9.41 Gbits/sec  8976/0          0
>  1582K/1133 us  1038396
> > > [  1] 8.00-9.00 sec  1.10 GBytes  9.41 Gbits/sec  8978/0          0
>  1582K/1115 us  1055394
> > > [  1] 9.00-10.00 sec  1.10 GBytes  9.42 Gbits/sec  8986/0          0
>    1582K/1122 us  1049744
> > > [  1] 0.00-10.00 sec  11.0 GBytes  9.41 Gbits/sec  89748/0          0
>    1582K/1122 us  1048294
> > >
> > >
> > > With write pacing
> > >
> > > [rjmcmahon@localhost iperf2-code]$ src/iperf -s -i 1 -e
> > > ------------------------------------------------------------
> > > Server listening on TCP port 5001 with pid 24702
> > > Read buffer size:  128 KByte (Dist bin width=16.0 KByte)
> > > TCP window size: 85.3 KByte (default)
> > > ------------------------------------------------------------
> > > [  1] local 192.168.1.10%enp2s0 port 5001 connected with 192.168.1.62
> port 50072 (MSS=1448) (trip-times) (sock=4) (peer 2.1.0-rc) on 2021-01-07
> 12:14:59 (PST)
> > > [ ID] Interval        Transfer    Bandwidth    Burst Latency
> avg/min/max/stdev (cnt/size) inP NetPwr  Reads=Dist
> > > [  1] 0.00-1.00 sec  1.08 GBytes  9.31 Gbits/sec
> 0.401/0.193/2.682/0.168 ms (8876/131084)  456 KByte 2904347
> 19868=3296:2404:2508:2797:3559:1778:1551:1975
> > > [  1] 1.00-2.00 sec  1.10 GBytes  9.41 Gbits/sec
> 0.400/0.219/0.627/0.053 ms (8971/131071)  460 KByte 2937822
> 19117=3069:2267:2307:2510:3029:1824:1683:2428
> > > [  1] 2.00-3.00 sec  1.09 GBytes  9.39 Gbits/sec
> 0.374/0.193/0.541/0.055 ms (8958/131060)  428 KByte 3143030
> 18942=2846:2423:2304:2417:2927:1831:1856:2338
> > > [  1] 3.00-4.00 sec  1.09 GBytes  9.39 Gbits/sec
> 0.385/0.190/0.664/0.070 ms (8952/131072)  441 KByte 3050401
> 19248=3041:2175:2343:2749:3320:1805:1526:2289
> > > [  1] 4.00-5.00 sec  1.09 GBytes  9.40 Gbits/sec
> 0.380/0.197/0.546/0.057 ms (8965/131075)  436 KByte 3095915
> 19959=3321:2398:2551:2738:3500:1840:1532:2079
> > > [  1] 5.00-6.00 sec  1.09 GBytes  9.39 Gbits/sec
> 0.369/0.198/0.536/0.051 ms (8956/131072)  423 KByte 3177431
> 21060=3627:2456:2886:3189:4246:1813:1190:1653
> > > [  1] 6.00-7.00 sec  1.09 GBytes  9.39 Gbits/sec
> 0.380/0.202/0.562/0.054 ms (8959/131077)  436 KByte 3086914
> 19263=3044:2338:2424:2505:3155:1809:1636:2352
> > > [  1] 7.00-8.00 sec  1.09 GBytes  9.40 Gbits/sec
> 0.376/0.198/0.541/0.053 ms (8965/131061)  432 KByte 3122495
> 19137=3079:2303:2340:2455:3017:1822:1683:2438
> > > [  1] 8.00-9.00 sec  1.10 GBytes  9.41 Gbits/sec
> 0.381/0.208/0.576/0.054 ms (8974/131073)  438 KByte 3083767
> 19162=3050:2269:2392:2486:3019:1891:1667:2388
> > > [  1] 9.00-10.00 sec  1.09 GBytes  9.40 Gbits/sec
> 0.371/0.194/0.582/0.057 ms (8964/131070)  425 KByte 3169244
> 19143=3006:2411:2303:2462:3067:1744:1760:2390
> > > [  1] 0.00-10.00 sec  10.9 GBytes  9.39 Gbits/sec
> 0.382/0.190/2.682/0.076 ms (89544/131072)  437 KByte 3074913
> 194908=31380:23444:24362:26308:32839:18161:16084:22330
> > >
> > >
> > > [rjmcmahon@localhost iperf2-code]$ src/iperf -c 192.168.1.10
> --near-congestion=0.05 --trip-times -i 1 -e
> > > ------------------------------------------------------------
> > > Client connecting to 192.168.1.10, TCP port 5001 with pid 19320 (1
> flows)
> > > Write buffer size: 131072 Byte
> > > TCP near-congestion delay weight set to 0.0500
> > > TCP window size: 85.0 KByte (default)
> > > ------------------------------------------------------------
> > > [  1] local 192.168.1.62%enp2s0 port 50072 connected with 192.168.1.10
> port 5001 (MSS=1448) (trip-times) (sock=3) (ct=0.40 ms) on 2021-01-07
> 12:14:59 (PST)
> > > [ ID] Interval        Transfer    Bandwidth       Write/Err  Rtry
>  Cwnd/RTT        NetPwr
> > > [  1] 0.00-1.00 sec  1.08 GBytes  9.31 Gbits/sec  8881/0          0
>  1135K/373 us  3120427
> > > [  1] 1.00-2.00 sec  1.10 GBytes  9.41 Gbits/sec  8971/0          0
>  1135K/391 us  3007281
> > > [  1] 2.00-3.00 sec  1.09 GBytes  9.39 Gbits/sec  8958/0          0
>  1135K/331 us  3547260
> > > [  1] 3.00-4.00 sec  1.09 GBytes  9.39 Gbits/sec  8952/0          0
>  1135K/288 us  4074155
> > > [  1] 4.00-5.00 sec  1.09 GBytes  9.40 Gbits/sec  8965/0          0
>  1135K/301 us  3903855
> > > [  1] 5.00-6.00 sec  1.09 GBytes  9.39 Gbits/sec  8955/0          0
>  1135K/414 us  2835144
> > > [  1] 6.00-7.00 sec  1.09 GBytes  9.40 Gbits/sec  8961/0          0
>  1135K/470 us  2499013
> > > [  1] 7.00-8.00 sec  1.09 GBytes  9.40 Gbits/sec  8964/0          0
>  1135K/350 us  3356941
> > > [  1] 8.00-9.00 sec  1.10 GBytes  9.41 Gbits/sec  8973/0          0
>  1135K/472 us  2491756
> > > [  1] 9.00-10.00 sec  1.09 GBytes  9.40 Gbits/sec  8964/0          0
>    1135K/402 us  2922710
> > > [  1] 0.00-10.00 sec  10.9 GBytes  9.39 Gbits/sec  89547/0          0
>    1135K/402 us  2919642
> > >
> > > Bob
> > >
> > >
> > > On Thu, Jan 7, 2021 at 11:22 AM Taran Lynn via Make-wifi-fast <
> make-wifi-fast@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote:
> > >>
> > >> The source can be found at https://github.com/lambda-11235/tcp_davis
> .
> > >>
> > >> The code mentioned in the paper can be found under the tag
> "arxiv_2020". The current master branch has an additional stable mode that
> I was testing out.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> On Thu, Jan 7, 2021 at 10:35 AM Dave Taht <dave.taht@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>> See: https://arxiv.org/pdf/2012.14996.pdf
> > >>>
> > >>> Things I really like:
> > >>>
> > >>> * they used flent
> > >>> * Using "variance" as the principal signal. This is essentially one
> of
> > >>> the great unpublished and unanalyzed improvements on the minstrel
> > >>> algorithm as well
> > >>> * Conventional ecn response
> > >>> * outperforms bbr on variable links
> > >>>
> > >>> Only negative so far is I haven't found any published source to it.
> :(
> > >>>
> > >>> Otherwise a very promising start to a year.
> > >>>
> > >>> "The choice of feedback mechanism between delay and packet loss has
> > >>> long been a point of contention in TCP congestion control. This has
> > >>> partly been resolved, as it has become increasingly evident that
> delay
> > >>> based methods are needed to facilitate modern interactive web
> > >>> applications. However, what has not been resolved is what control
> > >>> should be used, with the two candidates being the congestion window
> > >>> and the pacing rate. BBR is a new delay based congestion control
> > >>> algorithm that uses a pacing rate as its primary control and the
> > >>> congestion window as a secondary control. We propose that a
> congestion
> > >>> window first algorithm might give more desirable performance
> > >>> characteristics in situations where latency must be minimized even at
> > >>> the expense of some loss in throughput. To evaluate this hypothesis
> we
> > >>> introduce a new congestion control algorithm called TCP D*, which is
> a
> > >>> congestion window first algorithm that adopts BBR's approach of
> > >>> maximizing delivery rate while minimizing latency. In this paper, we
> > >>> discuss the key features of this algorithm, discuss the differences
> > >>> and similarity to BBR, and present some preliminary results based on
> a
> > >>> real implementation."
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> --
> > >>> "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over
> public
> > >>> relations, for Mother Nature cannot be fooled" - Richard Feynman
> > >>>
> > >>> dave@taht.net <Dave T?ht> CTO, TekLibre, LLC Tel: 1-831-435-0729
> > >>
> > >> _______________________________________________
> > >> Make-wifi-fast mailing list
> > >> Make-wifi-fast@lists.bufferbloat.net
> > >> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/make-wifi-fast
> > >
> > >
> > > This electronic communication and the information and any files
> transmitted with it, or attached to it, are confidential and are intended
> solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom it is addressed and
> may contain information that is confidential, legally privileged, protected
> by privacy laws, or otherwise restricted from disclosure to anyone else. If
> you are not the intended recipient or the person responsible for delivering
> the e-mail to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use,
> copying, distributing, dissemination, forwarding, printing, or copying of
> this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you received this e-mail in error,
> please return the e-mail to the sender, delete it from your computer, and
> destroy any printed copy of it.
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public
> > relations, for Mother Nature cannot be fooled" - Richard Feynman
> >
> > dave@taht.net <Dave T?ht> CTO, TekLibre, LLC Tel: 1-831-435-0729
>
> [ Attachment, skipping... ]
>
> [ Attachment, skipping... ]
>
> [ Attachment, skipping... ]
>
> [ Attachment, skipping... ]
>
> > _______________________________________________
> > Ecn-sane mailing list
> > Ecn-sane@lists.bufferbloat.net
> > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/ecn-sane
> >
> --
> Rod Grimes
> rgrimes@freebsd.org
>

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  reply	other threads:[~2021-01-08 17:52 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 10+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2021-01-07 18:35 [Flent-users] " Dave Taht
2021-01-07 19:20 ` [Flent-users] " Taran Lynn
2021-01-07 20:25   ` [Flent-users] Re: [Make-wifi-fast] " Bob McMahon
2021-01-07 21:41     ` Dave Taht
2021-01-07 22:22       ` Bob McMahon
2021-01-08 14:35       ` [Flent-users] Re: [Ecn-sane] " Rodney W. Grimes
2021-01-08 17:52         ` Bob McMahon [this message]
2021-01-08 15:38 ` [Flent-users] Re: [bbr-dev] " Neal Cardwell
2021-01-08 16:13   ` [Flent-users] Re: [Make-wifi-fast] " Jonathan Morton
2021-01-08 16:24     ` Bryson Richard

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	# If you have public-inbox 1.1+ installed, you may
	# initialize and index your mirror using the following commands:
	public-inbox-init -V1 flent-users flent-users/ https://lists.flent.org/flent-users \
		flent-users@flent.org
	public-inbox-index flent-users

Example config snippet for mirrors.


AGPL code for this site: git clone https://public-inbox.org/public-inbox.git