From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from smtp.github.com (out-21.smtp.github.com [192.30.252.204]) by mail.toke.dk (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7EBF8855983 for ; Sat, 5 Jun 2021 22:19:23 +0200 (CEST) Authentication-Results: mail.toke.dk; dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=github.com header.i=@github.com header.b=2dvztYM2 Received: from github.com (hubbernetes-node-c6248ee.ac4-iad.github.net [10.52.202.78]) by smtp.github.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA id D77F8520221 for ; Sat, 5 Jun 2021 13:19:21 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=github.com; s=pf2014; t=1622924361; bh=yMe7oNIFC2pmBn9RfpThV1+qAGR5cUddhk8mOoLrqpY=; h=Date:From:Reply-To:To:Cc:Subject:List-ID:List-Archive:List-Post: List-Unsubscribe:From; b=2dvztYM2pLJMGoab3vdHJXsfC3EW66dzcQWM5J1bfTynKwURjsFR4RMtkINA/YSBI qr39XluxmTeJtNbrRUrovGsoJ6WZvN4wg9vX8P/oZNulZPQARSqz4dnjF3Npa41gVj RYjXw02faQMJJodCYQfQToWrDUlWvg/Xe7Vivs28= Date: Sat, 05 Jun 2021 13:19:21 -0700 From: =?UTF-8?B?RGF2ZSBUw6RodA==?= To: tohojo/flent Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="--==_mimepart_60bbdc49d4c26_7f4fc6fc978e5"; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list X-GitHub-Sender: dtaht X-GitHub-Recipient: flent-users X-GitHub-Reason: subscribed X-Auto-Response-Suppress: All X-GitHub-Recipient-Address: flent-users@flent.org Message-ID-Hash: 7634UCIAJIO3PBAWF4SJ5RHW2NRPSDLJ X-Message-ID-Hash: 7634UCIAJIO3PBAWF4SJ5RHW2NRPSDLJ X-MailFrom: noreply@github.com X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header CC: Subscribed X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.4 Reply-To: tohojo/flent Subject: [Flent-users] [tohojo/flent] seeing the max, rather than the average, on rrul is less distracting (#225) List-Id: Flent discussion list Archived-At: List-Archive: List-Help: List-Owner: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: ----==_mimepart_60bbdc49d4c26_7f4fc6fc978e5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Naive readers of a rrul plot tend to look at the average, when, especially when you are trying to describe the difference between a good plot of latency and jitter [a good sch_fq plot of latency and jitter](http://dallas.starlink.taht.net/virtio_nobql/rrul_-_evenroute_v3_server_fq.png) and [The Terrifying FQ_CODEL BQL BUG](http://dallas.starlink.taht.net/virtio_nobql/rrul_-_evenroute_v3_server_fq_codel.png) To a manager type that wants to pull you off onto doing some irrelevant study of something of far less import to the correct behavior of 10s of millions of machines and of the internet itself and threatens to fire you if you are not going to comply... would help. rrul_max perhaps? -- You are receiving this because you are subscribed to this thread. Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHub: https://github.com/tohojo/flent/issues/225 ----==_mimepart_60bbdc49d4c26_7f4fc6fc978e5 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Naive readers of a rrul plot tend to look at the average, when, especially when you are trying to describe the difference between a good plot of latency and jitter

a good sch_fq plot of latency and jitter

and

The Terrifying FQ_CODEL BQL BUG

To a manager type that wants to pull you off onto doing some irrelevant study of something of far less import to the correct behavior of 10s of millions of machines and of the internet itself and threatens to fire you if you are not going to comply... would help. rrul_max perhaps?

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----==_mimepart_60bbdc49d4c26_7f4fc6fc978e5-- From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from out-24.smtp.github.com (out-24.smtp.github.com [192.30.252.207]) by mail.toke.dk (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7C1A185599B for ; Sat, 5 Jun 2021 22:21:25 +0200 (CEST) Authentication-Results: mail.toke.dk; dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=github.com header.i=@github.com header.b=VSR7z4rM Received: from github.com (hubbernetes-node-54fc4ba.ac4-iad.github.net [10.52.201.77]) by smtp.github.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 678CC60007A for ; Sat, 5 Jun 2021 13:21:24 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=github.com; s=pf2014; t=1622924484; bh=NFWfXgLlGaKQGCh+4p2VTRXAN/fj147VRis+93CWLSw=; h=Date:From:Reply-To:To:Cc:In-Reply-To:References:Subject:List-ID: List-Archive:List-Post:List-Unsubscribe:From; b=VSR7z4rMxCnGVE/dsfN8GkTw9qhhxJKP1vOP2VsqzItLLbUKvKqkLmqMMPyHjnUUN 7MG3R/uJ2NMJI+9hU4kx1hFLAs8W8NJ9W8g3oKFGPgw3e5TKyr0wI+5mUoKHPVTimX /T14pnQ58GR4B+RHz7sBWFPHPV2IZ22EfwJ1xP70= Date: Sat, 05 Jun 2021 13:21:24 -0700 From: =?UTF-8?B?RGF2ZSBUw6RodA==?= To: tohojo/flent Message-ID: In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="--==_mimepart_60bbdcc464325_4753c6fc1736aa"; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list X-GitHub-Sender: dtaht X-GitHub-Recipient: flent-users X-GitHub-Reason: subscribed X-Auto-Response-Suppress: All X-GitHub-Recipient-Address: flent-users@flent.org Message-ID-Hash: 7NQPD7W7VGJZG3EGGBTJ5FLKNQ4Z7FGH X-Message-ID-Hash: 7NQPD7W7VGJZG3EGGBTJ5FLKNQ4Z7FGH X-MailFrom: noreply@github.com X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header CC: Subscribed X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.4 Reply-To: tohojo/flent Subject: [Flent-users] Re: [tohojo/flent] seeing the max, rather than the average, on rrul is less distracting (#225) List-Id: Flent discussion list Archived-At: List-Archive: List-Help: List-Owner: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: ----==_mimepart_60bbdcc464325_4753c6fc1736aa Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ![rrul_-_evenroute_v3_server_fq_codel](https://user-images.githubusercontent.com/108682/120904374-e0474980-c600-11eb-9660-88cc566a15b9.png) ![rrul_-_evenroute_v3_server_fq](https://user-images.githubusercontent.com/108682/120904376-e2110d00-c600-11eb-8492-a2c9852bf138.png) -- You are receiving this because you are subscribed to this thread. Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHub: https://github.com/tohojo/flent/issues/225#issuecomment-855290856 ----==_mimepart_60bbdcc464325_4753c6fc1736aa Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

rrul_-_evenroute_v3_server_fq_codel
rrul_-_evenroute_v3_server_fq

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----==_mimepart_60bbdcc464325_4753c6fc1736aa-- From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from smtp.github.com (out-22.smtp.github.com [192.30.252.205]) by mail.toke.dk (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5B8128559B3 for ; Sat, 5 Jun 2021 22:23:09 +0200 (CEST) Authentication-Results: mail.toke.dk; dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=github.com header.i=@github.com header.b=EaM86p/R Received: from github.com (hubbernetes-node-d6bc19b.ac4-iad.github.net [10.52.201.70]) by smtp.github.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 6EDF9560045 for ; Sat, 5 Jun 2021 13:23:08 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=github.com; s=pf2014; t=1622924588; bh=zzvKudvaD+qO40EDd6jMmBXJp/OT6ZAZpdVx5MJ/grA=; h=Date:From:Reply-To:To:Cc:In-Reply-To:References:Subject:List-ID: List-Archive:List-Post:List-Unsubscribe:From; b=EaM86p/RM8y3TSB5I1rg7dQS5azDJRy+WV8jfyzc4dZaIq+H3MJ52rqju4C3pNRcD JZrx9Rbyx4QzR4kaHpfSvjaQgHxbD0IDNQ5pEX/JRQaqrnCgGPuCGYw+RMPbwv9MBY 1ak8PiEQ3BWpqgAjlDgqTEI2v2/naIgb2c+Qy2j4= Date: Sat, 05 Jun 2021 13:23:08 -0700 From: =?UTF-8?B?RGF2ZSBUw6RodA==?= To: tohojo/flent Message-ID: In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="--==_mimepart_60bbdd2c6baeb_6c0bc6fc13594d"; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list X-GitHub-Sender: dtaht X-GitHub-Recipient: flent-users X-GitHub-Reason: subscribed X-Auto-Response-Suppress: All X-GitHub-Recipient-Address: flent-users@flent.org Message-ID-Hash: ZYALXSAQJHRHZFSREZCH3PNINLBAHLWK X-Message-ID-Hash: ZYALXSAQJHRHZFSREZCH3PNINLBAHLWK X-MailFrom: noreply@github.com X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header CC: Subscribed X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.4 Reply-To: tohojo/flent Subject: [Flent-users] Re: [tohojo/flent] seeing the max, rather than the average, on rrul is less distracting (#225) List-Id: Flent discussion list Archived-At: List-Archive: List-Help: List-Owner: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: ----==_mimepart_60bbdd2c6baeb_6c0bc6fc13594d Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In other talks about voip, I've talked about this as "riding the sawtooth" -- You are receiving this because you are subscribed to this thread. Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHub: https://github.com/tohojo/flent/issues/225#issuecomment-855291055 ----==_mimepart_60bbdd2c6baeb_6c0bc6fc13594d Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

In other talks about voip, I've talked about this as "riding the sawtooth"

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----==_mimepart_60bbdd2c6baeb_6c0bc6fc13594d-- From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from out-23.smtp.github.com (out-23.smtp.github.com [192.30.252.206]) by mail.toke.dk (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D149F855C05 for ; Sun, 6 Jun 2021 18:00:18 +0200 (CEST) Authentication-Results: mail.toke.dk; dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=github.com header.i=@github.com header.b=bjcBF/bW Received: from github.com (hubbernetes-node-f7f585d.ac4-iad.github.net [10.52.205.51]) by smtp.github.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 535736004FD for ; Sun, 6 Jun 2021 09:00:16 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=github.com; s=pf2014; t=1622995216; bh=stuAgzHWf3XYq2zTcAgFy/ugqyYmVy2O3gWH19WLDkg=; h=Date:From:Reply-To:To:Cc:In-Reply-To:References:Subject:List-ID: List-Archive:List-Post:List-Unsubscribe:From; b=bjcBF/bWMQFsgPXFno5coGtAepsJGN/ZHcArifIDgczz5gvYb21VConc4Zy2O3xC1 n02F0zsoAEfvg0JZIlfrXD+pCqFL5lPkUsDuwvYGW5goRhufnWIzvtwOTSV7iul8ky oWKqOeCeYKYoGmBFCV3UyRBG/N7lGHDQRcQWYLxo= Date: Sun, 06 Jun 2021 09:00:16 -0700 From: moeller0 To: tohojo/flent Message-ID: In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="--==_mimepart_60bcf1104fe82_49c6fc63899"; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list X-GitHub-Sender: moeller0 X-GitHub-Recipient: flent-users X-GitHub-Reason: subscribed X-Auto-Response-Suppress: All X-GitHub-Recipient-Address: flent-users@flent.org Message-ID-Hash: MFKMJLTNO4YG7VMGOKTVDCELHEY7G3RF X-Message-ID-Hash: MFKMJLTNO4YG7VMGOKTVDCELHEY7G3RF X-MailFrom: noreply@github.com X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header CC: Subscribed X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.4 Reply-To: tohojo/flent Subject: [Flent-users] Re: [tohojo/flent] seeing the max, rather than the average, on rrul is less distracting (#225) List-Id: Flent discussion list Archived-At: List-Archive: List-Help: List-Owner: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: ----==_mimepart_60bcf1104fe82_49c6fc63899 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit As a stop-gap measure maybe not call it Avg, but "equitable throughput per flow" or something to direct the attention to the fact that this is useful to assess the fairness of capacity sharing and does not denote the aggregated throughput? -- You are receiving this because you are subscribed to this thread. Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHub: https://github.com/tohojo/flent/issues/225#issuecomment-855421223 ----==_mimepart_60bcf1104fe82_49c6fc63899 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

As a stop-gap measure maybe not call it Avg, but "equitable throughput per flow" or something to direct the attention to the fact that this is useful to assess the fairness of capacity sharing and does not denote the aggregated throughput?

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----==_mimepart_60bcf1104fe82_49c6fc63899-- From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from out-23.smtp.github.com (out-23.smtp.github.com [192.30.252.206]) by mail.toke.dk (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B7219857305 for ; Fri, 11 Jun 2021 13:41:38 +0200 (CEST) Authentication-Results: mail.toke.dk; dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=github.com header.i=@github.com header.b=ZqQCjNAA Received: from github.com (hubbernetes-node-43e790b.ac4-iad.github.net [10.52.200.67]) by smtp.github.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 872CF60080D for ; Fri, 11 Jun 2021 04:41:37 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=github.com; s=pf2014; t=1623411697; bh=+3GVSh7Y6A6ZjA3HWShhi7x+i4J3Pn4Q+++1d0ZBWOQ=; h=Date:From:Reply-To:To:Cc:In-Reply-To:References:Subject:List-ID: List-Archive:List-Post:List-Unsubscribe:From; b=ZqQCjNAAkM1xeyJt7oj3VfrlApBkJe9WNwH2+pG1yBE2zKrcy6esS7gNkpU8VnfC3 oY567nNH7f85cedLX5B/2A7WhQTMXf9l1LJJDxuzMTOGiOy7tbMsqRPa4p6tQ33wnB 8IGVOtnuwa4LDTtCINkIlWG6XyyJFFrhf0oHFQZY= Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2021 04:41:37 -0700 From: =?UTF-8?B?VG9rZSBIw7hpbGFuZC1Kw7hyZ2Vuc2Vu?= To: tohojo/flent Message-ID: In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="--==_mimepart_60c34bf18411b_68c6fc10052a"; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list X-GitHub-Sender: tohojo X-GitHub-Recipient: flent-users X-GitHub-Reason: subscribed X-Auto-Response-Suppress: All X-GitHub-Recipient-Address: flent-users@flent.org Message-ID-Hash: ZULYUYEZLLVOWLR4RA5RYPVVQXKWY77F X-Message-ID-Hash: ZULYUYEZLLVOWLR4RA5RYPVVQXKWY77F X-MailFrom: noreply@github.com X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header CC: Subscribed X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.4 Reply-To: tohojo/flent Subject: [Flent-users] Re: [tohojo/flent] seeing the max, rather than the average, on rrul is less distracting (#225) List-Id: Flent discussion list Archived-At: List-Archive: List-Help: List-Owner: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: ----==_mimepart_60c34bf18411b_68c6fc10052a Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Problem with just using the max is those outliers (like that last datapoint in TCP upload on the second plot). I suppose adding a variant of the ping plot where the bold black line rides on top of the plot instead of being an average? Is that what you mean? -- You are receiving this because you are subscribed to this thread. Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHub: https://github.com/tohojo/flent/issues/225#issuecomment-859521484 ----==_mimepart_60c34bf18411b_68c6fc10052a Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Problem with just using the max is those outliers (like that last datapoint in TCP upload on the second plot). I suppose adding a variant of the ping plot where the bold black line rides on top of the plot instead of being an average? Is that what you mean?

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----==_mimepart_60c34bf18411b_68c6fc10052a-- From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from smtp.github.com (out-26.smtp.github.com [192.30.252.209]) by mail.toke.dk (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5051A858E00 for ; Thu, 17 Jun 2021 21:03:36 +0200 (CEST) Authentication-Results: mail.toke.dk; dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=github.com header.i=@github.com header.b=S7woDj7Y Received: from github.com (hubbernetes-node-ec22940.ash1-iad.github.net [10.56.121.27]) by smtp.github.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 67E015E0233 for ; Thu, 17 Jun 2021 12:03:35 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=github.com; s=pf2014; t=1623956615; bh=9RVSfdOTqN4g9onDGKJq32XsrWFMIrVbeE9Pdyo3R4k=; h=Date:From:Reply-To:To:Cc:In-Reply-To:References:Subject:List-ID: List-Archive:List-Post:List-Unsubscribe:From; b=S7woDj7YZu0H0rieF0kAJSRQ7A2ss99C0EPvdA26an3ZXmWVSfm3rVgfggoi8Uh9r Vm+YUWUoeV5q2j6AjshSPGCjaDbsU1MEzVPcHAt4jCcrWzQCdiGZQBQu9Pq0JXCtq+ b+jewx+xpX0uHSUfXsO7cOkOhkf/hw9GMlei2Wsk= Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2021 12:03:35 -0700 From: =?UTF-8?B?RGF2ZSBUw6RodA==?= To: tohojo/flent Message-ID: In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="--==_mimepart_60cb9c8765850_7d9c6fc142936"; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list X-GitHub-Sender: dtaht X-GitHub-Recipient: flent-users X-GitHub-Reason: subscribed X-Auto-Response-Suppress: All X-GitHub-Recipient-Address: flent-users@flent.org Message-ID-Hash: RKKPBYIGMSQA3TFF3V2UUNX337HWEELY X-Message-ID-Hash: RKKPBYIGMSQA3TFF3V2UUNX337HWEELY X-MailFrom: noreply@github.com X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header CC: Subscribed X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.4 Reply-To: tohojo/flent Subject: [Flent-users] Re: [tohojo/flent] seeing the max, rather than the average, on rrul is less distracting (#225) List-Id: Flent discussion list Archived-At: List-Archive: List-Help: List-Owner: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: ----==_mimepart_60cb9c8765850_7d9c6fc142936 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit yes -- You are receiving this because you are subscribed to this thread. Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHub: https://github.com/tohojo/flent/issues/225#issuecomment-863491515 ----==_mimepart_60cb9c8765850_7d9c6fc142936 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

yes

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