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* [Flent-users] [tohojo/flent] Charting ping_hosts (#181)
@ 2019-09-10 15:39 Rich Brown
  2019-09-11 11:54 ` Rich Brown
                   ` (11 more replies)
  0 siblings, 12 replies; 13+ messages in thread
From: Rich Brown @ 2019-09-10 15:39 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: tohojo/flent; +Cc: Subscribed


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*I am forking this question from the "high ping times" issue because they are separate thoughts.*

> > > 1. Could flent charts use the `--test-parameter=ping_hosts=...` instead of values from the -H host? 

> > Well, it should probably show both by default. For now, there's a separate plot type you can use to see the extra flows (-p ping_extra). I don't see how to use the `-p` option. When I use it in `flent --gui -p ping_extra ...filename.gz` I see the following message:

> From the GUI the ping_extra plot should be selectable in the plot selection box once you've loaded the data file...

I do not see a plot selection box (although I once did in earlier runs). I create the ping_hosts using this command:
```
flent -x -H netperf.bufferbloat.net -t "netperf.bufferbloat.net" --te=ping_hosts=gstatic.com --te=download_streams=4 tcp_ndown
```

I then display the GUI with the following:

```
bash-3.2$ flent --gui ./tcp_ndown-2019-09-10T105028.665390.netperf_bufferbloat_net.flent.gz
Started Flent 1.3.0 using Python 2.7.15.
Initialised matplotlib v2.2.4 on numpy v1.16.5.
qt.qpa.cocoa.window: Window position outside any known screen, using primary screen
GUI loaded. Running on PyQt v5.9.2.
<close GUI window>
bash-3.2$
```
Might the Python error message influence the appearance of the plot selection box? Thanks.

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* Re: [Flent-users] [tohojo/flent] Charting ping_hosts (#181)
  2019-09-10 15:39 [Flent-users] [tohojo/flent] Charting ping_hosts (#181) Rich Brown
@ 2019-09-11 11:54 ` Rich Brown
  2019-09-11 12:05 ` Rich Brown
                   ` (10 subsequent siblings)
  11 siblings, 0 replies; 13+ messages in thread
From: Rich Brown @ 2019-09-11 11:54 UTC (permalink / raw)
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**Update:** I chose **View -> Plot selector** and got the plot selector to appear as a free-standing window. I clicked in its title bar and dragged it to the main window, and they merged to show the image below.

New question: Is it possible to select two plots (say "totals" and "ping_extra") and have them shown in the same chart? Thanks.

<img width="978" alt="image" src="https://user-images.githubusercontent.com/1094930/64694890-d6fb6e00-d468-11e9-8c47-e0d89694f5c7.png">


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* Re: [Flent-users] [tohojo/flent] Charting ping_hosts (#181)
  2019-09-10 15:39 [Flent-users] [tohojo/flent] Charting ping_hosts (#181) Rich Brown
  2019-09-11 11:54 ` Rich Brown
@ 2019-09-11 12:05 ` Rich Brown
  2019-09-11 12:07 ` Toke Høiland-Jørgensen
                   ` (9 subsequent siblings)
  11 siblings, 0 replies; 13+ messages in thread
From: Rich Brown @ 2019-09-11 12:05 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: tohojo/flent; +Cc: Subscribed


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Update to the update: The `qt.qpa.cocoa.window: Window position outside any known screen, using primary screen` message is *not* present when I re-launched the Flent GUI after combining the chart and the plot selector windows. 

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* Re: [Flent-users] [tohojo/flent] Charting ping_hosts (#181)
  2019-09-10 15:39 [Flent-users] [tohojo/flent] Charting ping_hosts (#181) Rich Brown
  2019-09-11 11:54 ` Rich Brown
  2019-09-11 12:05 ` Rich Brown
@ 2019-09-11 12:07 ` Toke Høiland-Jørgensen
  2019-09-11 12:17 ` Rich Brown
                   ` (8 subsequent siblings)
  11 siblings, 0 replies; 13+ messages in thread
From: Toke Høiland-Jørgensen @ 2019-09-11 12:07 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: tohojo/flent; +Cc: Subscribed


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Rich Brown <notifications@github.com> writes:

> **Update:** I chose **View -> Plot selector** and got the plot selector to appear as a free-standing window. I clicked in its title bar and dragged it to the main window, and they merged to show the image below.
>
> New question: Is it possible to select two plots (say "totals" and
> "ping_extra") and have them shown in the same chart? Thanks.

Nope, not generally; composite plots need to be defined in the test
definition files.

Doing this dynamically in the GUI would be a nice feature, though, but
not quite trivial unfortunately...


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* Re: [Flent-users] [tohojo/flent] Charting ping_hosts (#181)
  2019-09-10 15:39 [Flent-users] [tohojo/flent] Charting ping_hosts (#181) Rich Brown
                   ` (2 preceding siblings ...)
  2019-09-11 12:07 ` Toke Høiland-Jørgensen
@ 2019-09-11 12:17 ` Rich Brown
  2019-09-11 15:15 ` Toke Høiland-Jørgensen
                   ` (7 subsequent siblings)
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From: Rich Brown @ 2019-09-11 12:17 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: tohojo/flent; +Cc: Subscribed


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> Doing this dynamically in the GUI would be a nice feature, though, but
not quite trivial unfortunately...

Yes. I once worked on the plotting portion of a program, and nothing is trivial. 

So I come back to my request to select the ping_host value in lieu of latency to the -H host in the default plot. Here are sample results: the ~30 msec readings for the extra host match a concurrent fping run. Thanks.

```
                                               avg       median          # data pts
 Ping (ms) ICMP                     :        49.68        47.80 ms              339
 Ping (ms) ICMP gstatic.com (extra) :        30.41        28.05 ms              350 
```


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* Re: [Flent-users] [tohojo/flent] Charting ping_hosts (#181)
  2019-09-10 15:39 [Flent-users] [tohojo/flent] Charting ping_hosts (#181) Rich Brown
                   ` (3 preceding siblings ...)
  2019-09-11 12:17 ` Rich Brown
@ 2019-09-11 15:15 ` Toke Høiland-Jørgensen
  2019-09-11 16:12 ` Rich Brown
                   ` (6 subsequent siblings)
  11 siblings, 0 replies; 13+ messages in thread
From: Toke Høiland-Jørgensen @ 2019-09-11 15:15 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: tohojo/flent; +Cc: Subscribed


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Rich Brown <notifications@github.com> writes:

>> Doing this dynamically in the GUI would be a nice feature, though, but
> not quite trivial unfortunately...
>
> Yes. I once worked on the plotting portion of a program, and nothing is trivial. 
>
> So I come back to my request to select the ping_host value in lieu of latency to the -H host in the default plot. Here are sample results: the ~30 msec readings for the extra host match a concurrent fping run. Thanks.
>
> ```
>                                                avg       median          # data pts
>  Ping (ms) ICMP                     :        49.68        47.80 ms              339
>  Ping (ms) ICMP gstatic.com (extra) :        30.41        28.05 ms              350 
> ```

I think the right thing here would be to just have the ping plot(s) glob
for all available ping flows, and display them next to each other...

So which pots are you using? :)


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* Re: [Flent-users] [tohojo/flent] Charting ping_hosts (#181)
  2019-09-10 15:39 [Flent-users] [tohojo/flent] Charting ping_hosts (#181) Rich Brown
                   ` (4 preceding siblings ...)
  2019-09-11 15:15 ` Toke Høiland-Jørgensen
@ 2019-09-11 16:12 ` Rich Brown
  2019-09-11 17:27 ` Toke Høiland-Jørgensen
                   ` (5 subsequent siblings)
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From: Rich Brown @ 2019-09-11 16:12 UTC (permalink / raw)
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Actually, I want the ability to plot the "best"`ping_host` (that is, lowest latency host), since that's going to display the biggest variance. A few milliseconds of additional bloat added to the 90msec from my house to Fremont is easy to ignore. Tacking a few milliseconds onto 16msec from Cloudflare's DNS shows a significant delta - and worth reporting.

For example, here are ping times for various hosts from my house and (in paren's from netperf.bufferbloat.net in Atlanta):

* flent-fremont.bufferbloat.net ~90msec (~53msec)
* netperf.bufferbloat.net ~40msec (~30 microseconds - Duh :-)
* gstatic.com and 8.8.8.8 (Google's all-purpose host and DNS) is ~21-22msec (~15msec)
* Cloudflare's 1.1.1.1 (anycast address, I suspect) is ~16msec (< 300 microseconds)

So my preference would be to have a way to tell Flent to use ping times from another host besides the -H host. 

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* Re: [Flent-users] [tohojo/flent] Charting ping_hosts (#181)
  2019-09-10 15:39 [Flent-users] [tohojo/flent] Charting ping_hosts (#181) Rich Brown
                   ` (5 preceding siblings ...)
  2019-09-11 16:12 ` Rich Brown
@ 2019-09-11 17:27 ` Toke Høiland-Jørgensen
  2019-09-11 18:13 ` Rich Brown
                   ` (4 subsequent siblings)
  11 siblings, 0 replies; 13+ messages in thread
From: Toke Høiland-Jørgensen @ 2019-09-11 17:27 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: tohojo/flent; +Cc: Subscribed


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Rich Brown <notifications@github.com> writes:

> Actually, I want the ability to plot the "best"`ping_host` (that is, lowest latency host), since that's going to display the biggest variance. A few milliseconds of additional bloat added to the 90msec from my house to Fremont is easy to ignore. Tacking a few milliseconds onto 16msec from Cloudflare's DNS shows a significant delta - and worth reporting.
>
> For example, here are ping times for various hosts from my house and (in paren's from netperf.bufferbloat.net in Atlanta):
>
> * flent-fremont.bufferbloat.net ~90msec (~53msec)
> * netperf.bufferbloat.net ~40msec (~30 microseconds - Duh :-)
> * gstatic.com and 8.8.8.8 (Google's all-purpose host and DNS) is ~21-22msec (~15msec)
> * Cloudflare's 1.1.1.1 (anycast address, I suspect) is ~16msec (< 300 microseconds)
>
> So my preference would be to have a way to tell Flent to use ping
> times from another host besides the -H host.

Hmm, that is not easily doable as it is now, unfortunately...

One way to achieve something like it is to add another test parameter
that would override the ping destination of the existing tests. I.e.,
instead of adding a new ping host, you'd just get the ability to
override the one(s) already defined by the test...

Would that work for you?


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* Re: [Flent-users] [tohojo/flent] Charting ping_hosts (#181)
  2019-09-10 15:39 [Flent-users] [tohojo/flent] Charting ping_hosts (#181) Rich Brown
                   ` (6 preceding siblings ...)
  2019-09-11 17:27 ` Toke Høiland-Jørgensen
@ 2019-09-11 18:13 ` Rich Brown
  2019-09-13 16:27 ` Toke Høiland-Jørgensen
                   ` (3 subsequent siblings)
  11 siblings, 0 replies; 13+ messages in thread
From: Rich Brown @ 2019-09-11 18:13 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: tohojo/flent; +Cc: Subscribed


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> One way to achieve something like it is to add another test parameter
that would override the ping destination of the existing tests. I.e.,
instead of adding a new ping host, you'd just get the ability to
override the one(s) already defined by the test...
> 
> Would that work for you?

That'd be perfect. I could then add it into the coffee-shop-bloat-test.sh that I just published. Thanks!

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* Re: [Flent-users] [tohojo/flent] Charting ping_hosts (#181)
  2019-09-10 15:39 [Flent-users] [tohojo/flent] Charting ping_hosts (#181) Rich Brown
                   ` (7 preceding siblings ...)
  2019-09-11 18:13 ` Rich Brown
@ 2019-09-13 16:27 ` Toke Høiland-Jørgensen
  2019-09-13 17:13 ` Rich Brown
                   ` (2 subsequent siblings)
  11 siblings, 0 replies; 13+ messages in thread
From: Toke Høiland-Jørgensen @ 2019-09-13 16:27 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: tohojo/flent; +Cc: Subscribed


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Rich Brown <notifications@github.com> writes:

>> One way to achieve something like it is to add another test parameter
> that would override the ping destination of the existing tests. I.e.,
> instead of adding a new ping host, you'd just get the ability to
> override the one(s) already defined by the test...
>> 
>> Would that work for you?
>
> That'd be perfect. I could then add it into the
> coffee-shop-bloat-test.sh that I just published. Thanks!

One issue with this is that there is currently no way to tell whether
this substitution was made, making it difficult to compare different
tests. So this will have to depend on adding that (I imagine that adding
the hostname to the label could be one way to do it).


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* Re: [Flent-users] [tohojo/flent] Charting ping_hosts (#181)
  2019-09-10 15:39 [Flent-users] [tohojo/flent] Charting ping_hosts (#181) Rich Brown
                   ` (8 preceding siblings ...)
  2019-09-13 16:27 ` Toke Høiland-Jørgensen
@ 2019-09-13 17:13 ` Rich Brown
  2019-09-13 22:01 ` Toke Høiland-Jørgensen
  2019-09-14  1:45 ` Rich Brown
  11 siblings, 0 replies; 13+ messages in thread
From: Rich Brown @ 2019-09-13 17:13 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: tohojo/flent; +Cc: Subscribed


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I don't pretend to understand the metadata - there is a lot stuff in the JSON file - but I don't think including the information in the filename would be necessary.

I don't foresee a transition problem here. Flent can continue to default to using the -H host for its latency measurements. The new version's results should be comparable to results from a months-ago run with the same network conditions. 

In the case when someone explicitly uses the --use_this_host_for_default_latency option, Flent will of course preserve that flag in some new metadata and the charts will look different. But the person running the test will know about that flag and can take that into account.

(Or am I missing your point...) Thanks.

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* Re: [Flent-users] [tohojo/flent] Charting ping_hosts (#181)
  2019-09-10 15:39 [Flent-users] [tohojo/flent] Charting ping_hosts (#181) Rich Brown
                   ` (9 preceding siblings ...)
  2019-09-13 17:13 ` Rich Brown
@ 2019-09-13 22:01 ` Toke Høiland-Jørgensen
  2019-09-14  1:45 ` Rich Brown
  11 siblings, 0 replies; 13+ messages in thread
From: Toke Høiland-Jørgensen @ 2019-09-13 22:01 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: tohojo/flent; +Cc: Subscribed


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Rich Brown <notifications@github.com> writes:

> I don't pretend to understand the metadata - there is a lot stuff in
> the JSON file - but I don't think including the information in the
> filename would be necessary.
>
> I don't foresee a transition problem here. Flent can continue to
> default to using the -H host for its latency measurements. The new
> version's results should be comparable to results from a months-ago
> run with the same network conditions.
>
> In the case when someone explicitly uses the
> --use_this_host_for_default_latency option, Flent will of course
> preserve that flag in some new metadata and the charts will look
> different. But the person running the test will know about that flag
> and can take that into account.
>
> (Or am I missing your point...) Thanks.

The point is that if you have two data files, one where the flag was
used and one where it wasn't, and then create a plot with both of those
data files... Then the plot will show two wildly different ping graphs
for what is ostensibly the same test.

Yes, we can save it in the data file, but we also want it to be obvious
from the plots themselves...


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* Re: [Flent-users] [tohojo/flent] Charting ping_hosts (#181)
  2019-09-10 15:39 [Flent-users] [tohojo/flent] Charting ping_hosts (#181) Rich Brown
                   ` (10 preceding siblings ...)
  2019-09-13 22:01 ` Toke Høiland-Jørgensen
@ 2019-09-14  1:45 ` Rich Brown
  11 siblings, 0 replies; 13+ messages in thread
From: Rich Brown @ 2019-09-14  1:45 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: tohojo/flent; +Cc: Subscribed


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I do see your point. I'm casting about to find a good way to show this, especially when pulling results from separate data files, where the file names won't be a particularly good way to indicate a difference. Alternatives:

* The legend at the bottom "Local/Remote: localhost/flent-fremont.bufferbloat.net - Time: 2019... " could include "Pinging 1.2.3.4"
* Or perhaps "Local/Remote/Pinging: localhost/flent-fremont.bufferbloat.net/1.2.3.4 - Time: 2019... "
* Or in the case that Flent was combining separate data files, (actually, anytime the ping host is different from the -H host) perhaps the plot legend (on the right of the chart) could include the IP address of the alternate ping host - that is, "Ping to 1.2.3.4 (ms)" instead of "Ping (ms)" 

PS I'm not meaning to be glib, or trying to ignore other important situations. I expect this particular use case to be very common, and so want to make sure it looks great in the test results and charts. Thanks.

*I'm mostly adding the image to prompt my memory of how the chart looks, not for new information*
![image](https://user-images.githubusercontent.com/1094930/64439228-7e5a5880-d097-11e9-9068-1f80fd634be7.png)

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end of thread, other threads:[~2019-09-14  1:46 UTC | newest]

Thread overview: 13+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed)
-- links below jump to the message on this page --
2019-09-10 15:39 [Flent-users] [tohojo/flent] Charting ping_hosts (#181) Rich Brown
2019-09-11 11:54 ` Rich Brown
2019-09-11 12:05 ` Rich Brown
2019-09-11 12:07 ` Toke Høiland-Jørgensen
2019-09-11 12:17 ` Rich Brown
2019-09-11 15:15 ` Toke Høiland-Jørgensen
2019-09-11 16:12 ` Rich Brown
2019-09-11 17:27 ` Toke Høiland-Jørgensen
2019-09-11 18:13 ` Rich Brown
2019-09-13 16:27 ` Toke Høiland-Jørgensen
2019-09-13 17:13 ` Rich Brown
2019-09-13 22:01 ` Toke Høiland-Jørgensen
2019-09-14  1:45 ` Rich Brown

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	git clone --mirror https://lists.flent.org/flent-users

	# If you have public-inbox 1.1+ installed, you may
	# initialize and index your mirror using the following commands:
	public-inbox-init -V1 flent-users flent-users/ https://lists.flent.org/flent-users \
		flent-users@flent.org
	public-inbox-index flent-users

Example config snippet for mirrors.


AGPL code for this site: git clone https://public-inbox.org/public-inbox.git